A post created over the day of 3rd November

The fault lies with the fringe religious fanatics and the dumb sheep who follow them. Pick one. Bin Laden, Saddam, various fringe radical religious leaders who make anyone who doesen’t agree with them into a devil. Then they preach and foment hatred among people who are mostly emotion and no thinking ability, who follow, support, kill and die for them.

You forget to mention George W Bush to that list of ‘radical religious leaders’…… he’s the one who’s adding the R to Washington and I don’t just mean Republican…… Have you taken a look at his party’s policies lately? Funding for faith based groups? Abortion issues? The Christian coalition etc. Americans are living in thrid world ghettos and he’s talking funding to preists and followers and building ever more bigger churches?

What do you think evangelicals like Pat Robertson (Bush supporter) believes? That’s right if you’re not Christian you’re going to hell…. Jews are no exception either…… now why is that kind of rhetoric is so similar to those who drove those planes into the towers on 911?

“The fault lies with the fringe religious fanatics and the dumb sheep who follow them. Pick one.”

The first one that comes to mind? George W. Bush!

“……. various fringe radical religious leaders who make anyone who doesen’t agree with them into a devil. Then they preach and foment hatred among people who are mostly emotion and no thinking ability, who follow, support, kill and die for them.”

Fits his description beautifully….

http://www.house.gov/reform/min/features/iraq_on_the_record/

You apparently don’t have a lot of combat time or you wouldn’t make the remark about dying willingly. Many of the people in these pictures were the victim of cowardly suicide bombers. I think any who support this invasion should get in uniform and head over there so those who were involuntarily extended can come home. We don’t have a draft but what is an involuntary extension if not a kind of draft? If you think this is a cause worth fighting for then go fight for it. Don’t be so quick to lay my son’s life on the line unless you are willing to put yours there as well. I guess that’s a bit like put up or shut up. You are entitled to your opinion but do a year in combat and then make it an informed opinion.

They right sides argument seem to be:

The left does not appreciate_______ (insert president/responsibilities/soldiers/freedom etc.)

The lefts argument run more along the lines of:

-War is good for no one

-Bush is not a good leader

My PERSONAL response to the right (dont hold me accountable for my entire parties belief, I am liberal):
You have no agument. There is a reason you label yourselves conservative, you dont like change, you dont like radical thought, you wish things would stay the same and disobedience is frightening to you. This is all part of human nature, I can understand why someone would be upset over all this. Unfortunatley, the evidence is against you. The facts, as they lie currently, are that:

Bush made a mistake, he actually made several mistakes. War was not the answer, there is almost NEVER a good reason for war, and Bush’s certainly wasnt sound enough to justify it. Innocent people die in war. Only if the world itself is in imminent danger of being ovverun is there a reason for war. Bush struck the first blow, and therefore he is the agressor, and has lost all right to justification. All excuses for him at that point are merely that, excuses.

Does this make Bush evil? No, hes not a bad guy. Hes doing what he thinks is right. But hes DUMB. He doesnt deserve to be the president, honestly. I can honestly say that all you conservatives that argue for him dont really care about HIM but about your approach to life, he respresents your party and so you feel you must protect him from the “dems” or “liberals”. The president is our leader, our representative to the rest of world. He is our best, he shouldnt MAKE mistakes, especially on that scale. There is too much at stake. And if he DOES make mistakes, allow him to make a few and forgive him. Any more than a few is too much though, it proves he is not worthy of his post. He cannot carry the burden of leadership of the United States. And none of that makes him evil, just unable. Bush, in my opinion, has made too many mistakes. Its time for him to go, and give someone else a chance. I know I havnt exposed the truth to any hardcore conservatives (or liberals for that matter) but any of you wavering on the edges, I hope you are swayed by this page. Vote democratic, vote liberal, vote greenparty whatever. Just dont vote bush!

Yours truly, Phil

ps, I just realized there are twenty thousand other posts ahead of me, so I guess most people wont ever read my comment. Ah well. If you do read this feel free to email me with your questions/concerns.

Note: according to an alleged witness the SUNNI police turned the SHIITE prisoners over to men who may not have even been Iraqis. Clearly, if true, the animosities between the Shiites and the Sunnis run very, very deep. In such a country, who will create democracy in Iraq? The Sunnis? The Shiites? Ha!!!

(“Say hello to the new guys….same as the old guys).

– Ben

=====================

Funeral held for six Shiite drivers

By Sameer N. Yacoub, Associated Press, 6/15/2004 10:35

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) Dozens of angry Shiites accused Fallujah police Tuesday of handing over Shiite truck drivers to Sunni extremists who slaughtered them after they sought refuge at a police station. Iraqi authorities denied the charge.

The allegations were raised at a funeral service in Baghdad’s Firdos Square for six Shiite truck drivers whose bodies were found Monday at a morgue in Ramadi, west of Fallujah.

Mourners said the men were delivering a load of tents to the Fallujah Brigade, a force that cooperates with the U.S. military in the restive city 40 miles west of the capital.

On their return trip to Baghdad on June 5, the drivers were stopped by armed men who identified themselves as ”mujahedeen,” fighters who battled Marines to a standstill in April.

The six drivers escaped and sought refuge in a police station, the mourners said. However, they were handed over to a hard-line Sunni cleric because they were Shiites, the mourners said.

They were killed after the men who were holding them, one of them a Syrian, demanded $3,000 for each driver, the mourners said. Their families could not afford the ransom.

Col. Adnan Abdul-Rahman, spokesman of the Interior Ministry, described the allegations against the police as ”baseless,” but confirmed that the killings took place in the Fallujah area.

If true, the incident raises new questions about the capability of the Iraqi police to handle security after the handover of sovereignty June 30.

A 12-year-old boy, Mohammed Khudeir, said he was among those allegedly handed over by the police. But the cleric and his followers let him go, apparently because of his age.

”We tried to seek police protection, but the policemen handed us over,” Khudeir said. He said the cleric ”handed us over to a group of Arabs who spoke with non-Iraqi accents. I was tortured for a while, but then I was released.”

Khudeir’s brother and uncle were slain by the insurgents, he said.

The hard-line cleric to whom the police reportedly handed over the men dismissed claims he was involved in the killings, but said he was ready to stand trial in an Islamic court if credible evidence against him was provided.

”I am not a criminal, nor an assassin, nor bloodthirsty,” Imam Abdullah al-Janabi told Al-Arabiya television. ”I am above these accusations. I cannot stain my hands with a crime.”

One man, Alaa Mery, said that on June 8, he went to Fallujah to negotiate for the hostages’ release. He said he met with some Syrians who identified themselves as members of the extremist Wahhabist sect predominant in Saudi arabia and said they were holding the drivers because they collaborated with the Americans.

”Fallujah clerics and people made a big fuss regarding Abu Ghraib torture, but now they are killing and mutilating Muslims,” Mery said, referring to the American abuse of Iraqis at the Abu Ghraib prison. ”They are not resistance. They are a copy of Saddam.”

No kidding.

“These men gladly died for freedom. You cowardly sit back and live under the freedom they died for. ”

Ben’s response:

“Able”, you’re obviously not familiar with Iraq. Many (perhaps most) Iraqis DO NOT WANT “American style” freedom.

American freedom is largely the freedom to be left alone, free of unwanted government intrusion in our lives. Our freedom is the freedom of everyone to dress the way the want, wear their hair, or beards however they want. Our freedom is the freedom to practice any religion, or no religion. Our freedom is the freedom to speak even when what we say is unpopular.

The “freedom” many Iraqis want is the freedom to

1. have “shariah” or Islamic law imposed on themselves and others.
2. to be able to dictate the clothing and hairstyles of themselves and others.
3. to be able to oppress others religious and ethnic groups (e.g. the Kurds)

Our soldiers did not die for freedom. They died for oppression. Or at the very least a kind of freedom that is very different from ours.

As to “living under the freedom that they died for” NOW you are just plain wrong.

We won our freedom from the British, and we have defended it in our courts, and on our streets, and in the halls of Congress ever since. Our freedom has NOTHING to do with Iraq, or the fine men who died so pointlessly there. You would know this if you would only pick up a history book.

– Ben

Long live the photos section!

blessed be.

Перед штурмом Багдада американские солдаты молятся.
Один:
- Господи, помоги мне выжить или умереть героем.
Второй:
- Господи, сделай так, чтобы в Тюмени закончилась нефть.
Первый:
- Ты че?
Второй:
- А тебе охота защищать демократию в холодной Сибири?!