Comments on: WordPress and Lyceum http://ma.tt/2006/03/wordpress-and-lyceum/ Unlucky in Cards Mon, 30 Jan 2012 18:53:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4-alpha-19904 By: 10 Principles of the PHP Masters « Viral Solani…. http://ma.tt/2006/03/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-493301 10 Principles of the PHP Masters « Viral Solani…. Fri, 10 Dec 2010 10:49:32 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2006/03/01/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-493301 [...] anybody knows how to scale a website, it’s Matt Mullenweg. In 2006 Matt gave some insight into WordPress’ database structure and explained why WordPress MU uses a separate MySQL table for each blog, as opposed to using one [...] [...] anybody knows how to scale a website, it’s Matt Mullenweg. In 2006 Matt gave some insight into WordPress’ database structure and explained why WordPress MU uses a separate MySQL table for each blog, as opposed to using one [...]

]]> By: Matt http://ma.tt/2006/03/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-483229 Matt Sun, 08 Aug 2010 23:22:49 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2006/03/01/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-483229 That's cool -- haven't thought about Lyceum in a while. I did always like the name though. That’s cool — haven’t thought about Lyceum in a while. I did always like the name though.

]]> By: Devin Reams http://ma.tt/2006/03/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-483163 Devin Reams Thu, 05 Aug 2010 18:28:32 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2006/03/01/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-483163 Hey Matt, just a heads up that since the Lyceum project has been discontinued, we've developed a method to migrate Lyceum content back to WordPress 3.0. :) Hey Matt, just a heads up that since the Lyceum project has been discontinued, we’ve developed a method to migrate Lyceum content back to WordPress 3.0. :)

]]> By: estrada’s Blog » Blog Archive » 10 Principles of the PHP Masters. Chapter Two. http://ma.tt/2006/03/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-466981 estrada’s Blog » Blog Archive » 10 Principles of the PHP Masters. Chapter Two. Wed, 22 Jul 2009 06:40:30 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2006/03/01/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-466981 [...] alguien sabe como escalar un sitio web, ese es Matt Mullenweg. En 2006 dio algunos elementos para comprender la estructura de la base de datos de Wordpress y explico porque Wordpress MU usa una tabla MySQL para cada blog, en contraposición a utilizar una [...] [...] alguien sabe como escalar un sitio web, ese es Matt Mullenweg. En 2006 dio algunos elementos para comprender la estructura de la base de datos de WordPress y explico porque WordPress MU usa una tabla MySQL para cada blog, en contraposición a utilizar una [...]

]]> By: 10 Principles of the PHP Masters - NETTUTS http://ma.tt/2006/03/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-451095 10 Principles of the PHP Masters - NETTUTS Tue, 09 Sep 2008 14:20:30 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2006/03/01/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-451095 [...] anybody knows how to scale a website, it's Matt Mullenweg. In 2006 Matt gave some insight into Wordpress' database structure and explained why Wordpress MU uses a separate MySQL table for each blog, as opposed to using one [...] [...] anybody knows how to scale a website, it’s Matt Mullenweg. In 2006 Matt gave some insight into WordPress’ database structure and explained why WordPress MU uses a separate MySQL table for each blog, as opposed to using one [...]

]]> By: senthil http://ma.tt/2006/03/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-440456 senthil Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:43:12 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2006/03/01/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-440456 I think, the concept of distribution can be still easily achieved in monolithic tables also.. Just replicate the same database, and create a index of which blog is hosted in which table.. So, the scaling is actually a non-issue here.. atleast to my knowledge. I think, the concept of distribution can be still easily achieved in monolithic tables also.. Just replicate the same database, and create a index of which blog is hosted in which table..

So, the scaling is actually a non-issue here.. atleast to my knowledge.

]]> By: On the Jorb » Blog Archive » Lyceum and MU/Wordpress http://ma.tt/2006/03/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-76812 On the Jorb » Blog Archive » Lyceum and MU/Wordpress Fri, 21 Apr 2006 14:28:27 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2006/03/01/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-76812 [...] After reading Matt Mullenweg post about Lyceum and MU/Wordpress I’d like to see a real side by side comparison between the two. It would be great if the folks at Lyceum did this and put it on their site. I’m not suggesting a adversarial stance but a simple clear the air statement. If the facts aren’t put up fiction will rule. Posted by BrianR Filed in Uncategorized [...] [...] After reading Matt Mullenweg post about Lyceum and MU/Wordpress I’d like to see a real side by side comparison between the two. It would be great if the folks at Lyceum did this and put it on their site. I’m not suggesting a adversarial stance but a simple clear the air statement. If the facts aren’t put up fiction will rule. Posted by BrianR Filed in Uncategorized [...]

]]> By: jb http://ma.tt/2006/03/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-72822 jb Sat, 15 Apr 2006 18:32:44 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2006/03/01/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-72822 I'd like to strongly encourage some TLC (or even just a little more C) on the MU page. A more solid looking page with more up to date info would be an enormous help to me as I evangelize WordPress. Right now, multiple blogs/one install is the *only* thing that's tempting some institutions towards Movable Type... I’d like to strongly encourage some TLC (or even just a little more C) on the MU page. A more solid looking page with more up to date info would be an enormous help to me as I evangelize WordPress. Right now, multiple blogs/one install is the *only* thing that’s tempting some institutions towards Movable Type…

]]> By: Blogalistic » Lyceum http://ma.tt/2006/03/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-57982 Blogalistic » Lyceum Thu, 09 Mar 2006 15:59:51 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2006/03/01/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-57982 [...] Lyceum is a multi-blog variation of WordPress. WordPress’s Matt Mullenweg talks about it too. [...] [...] Lyceum is a multi-blog variation of WordPress. WordPress’s Matt Mullenweg talks about it too. [...]

]]> By: Thank You Fellow Bloggers Meme! at Brendan McPhillips.com http://ma.tt/2006/03/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-57522 Thank You Fellow Bloggers Meme! at Brendan McPhillips.com Wed, 08 Mar 2006 04:38:34 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2006/03/01/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-57522 [...] Reading these three blogs lead to starting my own blog using Wordpress. A big thank you goes to Matt Mullenweg, Ryan Boren and all the developers who created and maintain this excellent, FREE, blog software program. If you're new to Wordpress there is an excellent support system of bloggers who contribute to the extensive Codex and who patiently answer questions on the Support Forum. But when I was first learning I stumbled upon a person that really helped me with the basics of CSS and other Wordpress stuff (of which I was clueless); Podz. Here is his WordPress Guide and his blog. One of the invaluable things that Podz taught me was to download the WebDeveloper toolbar in Firefox to directly tinker with and edit the CSS. Thank you Matt, Ryan, all at Wordpress and Podz! After a long search I decided to use the great K2 Wordpress theme created by Michael Heilemann and Chris J. Davis. It is clean, flexible and easy to use (although if anyone can tell me why my trackback narrative doesn't show up…). As with Wordpress, the K2 theme as a lot of people who support and answer newbie questions at this forum. For me one person who has really helped me with K2 is Paul Stamatiou. A perfect example of his great articles supporting K2 is the first in a series called Customizing K2. Thanks Michael, Chris and Paul and all the K2 community! [...] [...] Reading these three blogs lead to starting my own blog using WordPress. A big thank you goes to Matt Mullenweg, Ryan Boren and all the developers who created and maintain this excellent, FREE, blog software program. If you’re new to WordPress there is an excellent support system of bloggers who contribute to the extensive Codex and who patiently answer questions on the Support Forum. But when I was first learning I stumbled upon a person that really helped me with the basics of CSS and other WordPress stuff (of which I was clueless); Podz. Here is his WordPress Guide and his blog. One of the invaluable things that Podz taught me was to download the WebDeveloper toolbar in Firefox to directly tinker with and edit the CSS. Thank you Matt, Ryan, all at WordPress and Podz! After a long search I decided to use the great K2 WordPress theme created by Michael Heilemann and Chris J. Davis. It is clean, flexible and easy to use (although if anyone can tell me why my trackback narrative doesn’t show up…). As with WordPress, the K2 theme as a lot of people who support and answer newbie questions at this forum. For me one person who has really helped me with K2 is Paul Stamatiou. A perfect example of his great articles supporting K2 is the first in a series called Customizing K2. Thanks Michael, Chris and Paul and all the K2 community! [...]

]]> By: Shanti Braford http://ma.tt/2006/03/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-56911 Shanti Braford Mon, 06 Mar 2006 05:14:47 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2006/03/01/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-56911 I'm probably not alone here ... when I say, I'd love to see how you partition the user blog tables N databases, in Wordpress.com. But I understand if that's not priority #1 anytime soon. :) After scaling <a href="http://www.ninerniner.com/" rel="nofollow">Niner Niner</a> to 24+ blogs using stock WP, I think it's about time we give WPMU a try and use subdomains instead of unique domain names for each blog. =) I’m probably not alone here … when I say, I’d love to see how you partition the user blog tables N databases, in WordPress.com.

But I understand if that’s not priority #1 anytime soon. :)

After scaling Niner Niner to 24+ blogs using stock WP, I think it’s about time we give WPMU a try and use subdomains instead of unique domain names for each blog. =)

]]> By: cliff http://ma.tt/2006/03/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-56015 cliff Fri, 03 Mar 2006 14:04:08 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2006/03/01/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-56015 "we have the users partitioned between 4096 databases" Are you doing this with the base MU code? If so, how? We, here at Plymouth State University didn't see any way to do this without changes to the code. “we have the users partitioned between 4096 databases”

Are you doing this with the base MU code? If so, how? We, here at Plymouth State University didn’t see any way to do this without changes to the code.

]]> By: Zach http://ma.tt/2006/03/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-56014 Zach Fri, 03 Mar 2006 14:01:51 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2006/03/01/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-56014 We at Plymouth State University have also had some concerns with the many tables. I too have worked on some pretty seriously large MySQL tables that when indexed and queried properly perform fine. One of the areas I have the biggest concern about efficiency in MU is when a new user creates their blog, then posts little to nothing. You still are stuck with all those tables, whereas creating them as new rows in the existing structure would probably lead to very few records. A final thought, why can't lyceum modify the DB abstraction layer to shove a blog id into every query automatically, then build the backend admin interface using simple plugins? This way, you could stay nearly 100% base code, and all the plugins should work, the only exceptions (and I'm sure these are what some complained about) are the plugins that have their own tables to store data... We at Plymouth State University have also had some concerns with the many tables. I too have worked on some pretty seriously large MySQL tables that when indexed and queried properly perform fine. One of the areas I have the biggest concern about efficiency in MU is when a new user creates their blog, then posts little to nothing. You still are stuck with all those tables, whereas creating them as new rows in the existing structure would probably lead to very few records.

A final thought, why can’t lyceum modify the DB abstraction layer to shove a blog id into every query automatically, then build the backend admin interface using simple plugins? This way, you could stay nearly 100% base code, and all the plugins should work, the only exceptions (and I’m sure these are what some complained about) are the plugins that have their own tables to store data…

]]> By: The Lyceum Project » Lyceum launch http://ma.tt/2006/03/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-55675 The Lyceum Project » Lyceum launch Thu, 02 Mar 2006 16:36:40 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2006/03/01/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-55675 [...] The Lyceum launch yesterday went well. It’s great to finally get the word out and get some feedback. The day started out low with a rejected Slashdot submission. But an hour later, the story was accepted on Boing Boing! Yes! Some other folks blogged us, including WordPress creator Matt Mullenweg, who talked about why they went with the N-tables-per-blog database architecture for WordPress MU. I got lots of feedback and questions via email, IRC, tickets, and the blog. [...] [...] The Lyceum launch yesterday went well. It’s great to finally get the word out and get some feedback. The day started out low with a rejected Slashdot submission. But an hour later, the story was accepted on Boing Boing! Yes! Some other folks blogged us, including WordPress creator Matt Mullenweg, who talked about why they went with the N-tables-per-blog database architecture for WordPress MU. I got lots of feedback and questions via email, IRC, tickets, and the blog. [...]

]]> By: æ¡‘æž—å¿— » Lyceum，一个WordPress多用户版变种 http://ma.tt/2006/03/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-55644 æ¡‘æž—å¿— » Lyceum，一个WordPress多用户版变种 Thu, 02 Mar 2006 14:41:49 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2006/03/01/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-55644 [...] Boing Boing å’Œ WordPress çš„ Matt 都报道了 Lyceum，这个WordPress多用户版变种。 [...] [...] Boing Boing å’Œ WordPress çš„ Matt 都报道了 Lyceum，这个WordPress多用户版变种。 [...]

]]> By: Lyceum at Gea-Suan Lin’s BLOG http://ma.tt/2006/03/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-55426 Lyceum at Gea-Suan Lin’s BLOG Thu, 02 Mar 2006 07:29:33 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2006/03/01/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-55426 [...] Lyceum 是一套多人修改自 WordPress 的軟體，以提供多人使用。Matt 在 WordPress and Lyceum 這篇提到關於 Lyceum 對於資料庫的設計： From my examination of the code, it seems it's exactly what WordPress MU is except they've modified every SQL statement (what a pain!) to use a monolithic table structure. We tested this approach for MU, but found it was too expensive to scale past a certain point. With monolithic structures you hit a wall based on your hardware. [...] [...] Lyceum 是一套多人修改自 WordPress 的軟體，以提供多人使用。Matt 在 WordPress and Lyceum 這篇提到關於 Lyceum 對於資料庫的設計： From my examination of the code, it seems it’s exactly what WordPress MU is except they’ve modified every SQL statement (what a pain!) to use a monolithic table structure. We tested this approach for MU, but found it was too expensive to scale past a certain point. With monolithic structures you hit a wall based on your hardware. [...]

]]> By: James Farmer http://ma.tt/2006/03/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-55418 James Farmer Thu, 02 Mar 2006 06:36:34 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2006/03/01/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-55418 Begad, it feels like a horrible flashback to 8 months ago! Begad, it feels like a horrible flashback to 8 months ago!

]]> By: The Real Paul Jones » Lyceum Announcement Day http://ma.tt/2006/03/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-55401 The Real Paul Jones » Lyceum Announcement Day Thu, 02 Mar 2006 03:34:00 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2006/03/01/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-55401 [...] Lyceum’s St David’s Day was a good one. There was an Announcement in BoingBoing with several great blog entries and comments including one from WordPress MultiUser meister Matt Mullenweg. Lyceum was in the Top 5 of del.icio.us popular earlier today and now has over 115 del.icio.us entries. We have 135 blogs on the Lyceum Demo instance now (March 1, 2006 at 22:30), Great work by JJB, Fred and the other Lyceum folks. [...] [...] Lyceum’s St David’s Day was a good one. There was an Announcement in BoingBoing with several great blog entries and comments including one from WordPress MultiUser meister Matt Mullenweg. Lyceum was in the Top 5 of del.icio.us popular earlier today and now has over 115 del.icio.us entries. We have 135 blogs on the Lyceum Demo instance now (March 1, 2006 at 22:30), Great work by JJB, Fred and the other Lyceum folks. [...]

]]> By: Matt http://ma.tt/2006/03/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-55387 Matt Thu, 02 Mar 2006 01:29:58 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2006/03/01/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-55387 We'll be passing a million tables in a day or two, so I'll let you know how it goes. :) We’ll be passing a million tables in a day or two, so I’ll let you know how it goes. :)

]]> By: Paul Jones http://ma.tt/2006/03/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-55386 Paul Jones Thu, 02 Mar 2006 01:26:08 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2006/03/01/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-55386 Matt, We love WordPress, but as we wrote to you back in the day, we don't feel that having a million tables is a scalable advantage. I've spent enough time with large heavily used mySQL sites to feel certain of that. And then we spent some time with the folks who teach database here at UNC. We got the same answer. Less tables the better if the tables are normalized properly. Obviously the only way we can ever be sure is if there is a bake-off done by someone other than us at ibiblio or you with WPMU. I think that would be fun. Afterall, we're all about learning here. Matt,
We love WordPress, but as we wrote to you back in the day, we don’t feel that having a million tables is a scalable advantage. I’ve spent enough time with large heavily used mySQL sites to feel certain of that. And then we spent some time with the folks who teach database here at UNC. We got the same answer. Less tables the better if the tables are normalized properly.
Obviously the only way we can ever be sure is if there is a bake-off done by someone other than us at ibiblio or you with WPMU. I think that would be fun. Afterall, we’re all about learning here.

]]> By: Matt http://ma.tt/2006/03/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-55377 Matt Wed, 01 Mar 2006 23:31:57 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2006/03/01/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-55377 Also it has better compatibility with plugins, since to a plugin the table structure is transparently the same as it is in WordPress. I can't think of any plugins that don't work in MU out of the box, even ones that interact with the database. Also it has better compatibility with plugins, since to a plugin the table structure is transparently the same as it is in WordPress. I can’t think of any plugins that don’t work in MU out of the box, even ones that interact with the database.

]]> By: Gregory Wild-Smith http://ma.tt/2006/03/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-55374 Gregory Wild-Smith Wed, 01 Mar 2006 23:15:06 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2006/03/01/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-55374 Really? Well in that case the site really needs updating! It still says it requires it. That is, in fact, what has been keeping me from downloading it again: "argh.. still smarty" I'll have to check it out again then, and I would imagine that Matt's TLC comment has been more than illustrated! ;) Really? Well in that case the site really needs updating! It still says it requires it.

That is, in fact, what has been keeping me from downloading it again: “argh.. still smarty”

I’ll have to check it out again then, and I would imagine that Matt’s TLC comment has been more than illustrated! ;)

]]> By: Donncha O Caoimh http://ma.tt/2006/03/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-55372 Donncha O Caoimh Wed, 01 Mar 2006 23:04:00 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2006/03/01/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-55372 Gregory - WPMU hasn't required Smarty in several months, probably a year by now. It uses bog-standard WordPress themes. Gregory – WPMU hasn’t required Smarty in several months, probably a year by now. It uses bog-standard WordPress themes.

]]> By: Twilight Universe » Multi-user Wordpress http://ma.tt/2006/03/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-55360 Twilight Universe » Multi-user Wordpress Wed, 01 Mar 2006 22:15:07 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2006/03/01/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-55360 [...] However another one called Lyceum has sprung up (an advantage of Open Source Software) which looks like it will suit my needs a lot better - especially as it supports most plugins and themes with few or no changes, something that WPMU doesn’t do at all. Matt has an interesting few points to make about the differences in design between the two efforts. [...] [...] However another one called Lyceum has sprung up (an advantage of Open Source Software) which looks like it will suit my needs a lot better – especially as it supports most plugins and themes with few or no changes, something that WPMU doesn’t do at all. Matt has an interesting few points to make about the differences in design between the two efforts. [...]

]]> By: Gregory Wild-Smith http://ma.tt/2006/03/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-55357 Gregory Wild-Smith Wed, 01 Mar 2006 21:50:57 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2006/03/01/wordpress-and-lyceum/#comment-55357 The big advantage to Lyceum though (seemingly anyhow) is that it doesn't collapse so easily, or just not work, when presented with regular WP themes and plugins. The incompatibilities that MU has, especially with themes, have made it far too much work for many projects I would have liked to have used it in. Plus it doesn't seem to need/want Smarty, which I concider a huge plus. Huge. Enormous in fact. I loathe Smarty so damn much.... It would be nice if something could do a full comparison between the two. From your comments it sounds like MU might win in scalability, but they might win on easy of use/installation/modification. Speed? Who knows... interesting though, very interesting. The big advantage to Lyceum though (seemingly anyhow) is that it doesn’t collapse so easily, or just not work, when presented with regular WP themes and plugins. The incompatibilities that MU has, especially with themes, have made it far too much work for many projects I would have liked to have used it in.

Plus it doesn’t seem to need/want Smarty, which I concider a huge plus. Huge. Enormous in fact. I loathe Smarty so damn much….

It would be nice if something could do a full comparison between the two. From your comments it sounds like MU might win in scalability, but they might win on easy of use/installation/modification. Speed? Who knows…

interesting though, very interesting.

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