Comments on: On PHP http://ma.tt/2007/07/on-php/ Unlucky in Cards Mon, 30 Jan 2012 18:53:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4-alpha-19904 By: On PHP, Redux | Andrew Nacin http://ma.tt/2007/07/on-php/#comment-486773 On PHP, Redux | Andrew Nacin Thu, 30 Sep 2010 04:12:11 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2007/07/13/on-php/#comment-486773 [...] our philosophies here, why testing coverage is a driving factor, and the like. You should also read Matt’s post from three years ago. The discussions in the comments on both posts are particularly [...] [...] our philosophies here, why testing coverage is a driving factor, and the like. You should also read Matt’s post from three years ago. The discussions in the comments on both posts are particularly [...]

]]> By: WordPress drops PHP 4 in Q1 2011 | hakre on wordpress http://ma.tt/2007/07/on-php/#comment-481671 WordPress drops PHP 4 in Q1 2011 | hakre on wordpress Wed, 14 Jul 2010 17:19:22 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2007/07/13/on-php/#comment-481671 [...] 4 in wordpress has a long history on it’s own. Three years ago Matt Mullenweg misunderstood the address of the goPHP 5 initiative and labeled version 5 of the free software project named PHP a failing product. Finally this [...] [...] 4 in wordpress has a long history on it’s own. Three years ago Matt Mullenweg misunderstood the address of the goPHP 5 initiative and labeled version 5 of the free software project named PHP a failing product. Finally this [...]

]]> By: On PHP | Andrew Nacin http://ma.tt/2007/07/on-php/#comment-481477 On PHP | Andrew Nacin Fri, 09 Jul 2010 19:56:31 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2007/07/13/on-php/#comment-481477 [...] that leads me to this post’s title: On PHP. It’s the title of a post Matt Mullenweg wrote three years ago, spurred by the GoPHP5 [...] [...] that leads me to this post’s title: On PHP. It’s the title of a post Matt Mullenweg wrote three years ago, spurred by the GoPHP5 [...]

]]> By: The beginning of the end of PHP’s popularity? « John Herren’s Blog http://ma.tt/2007/07/on-php/#comment-449419 The beginning of the end of PHP’s popularity? « John Herren’s Blog Fri, 08 Aug 2008 02:51:03 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2007/07/13/on-php/#comment-449419 [...] Now, there are reasons that very popular software for PHP is to this very day still written for PHP 4. A large number of hosting providers have not made the jump to version 5. While both versions can be run simultaneously, the solution is not optimal, and a bit of a hack. A little over a year ago, Matt Mullenweg of WordPress stated his reason for not abandoning version 4. I personally disagree with his apparent “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” attitude: “WordPress works just as well with PHP 5 as 4, and there are no features on the roadmap (including ones on your list) that would require PHP 5. The only reason for us to break PHP 4 compatibility would be political, and our users without the ability to upgrade their server would be the ones who lose. WordPress doesn’t make PHP 4 interesting or not, it’s agnostic.” [link] [...] [...] Now, there are reasons that very popular software for PHP is to this very day still written for PHP 4. A large number of hosting providers have not made the jump to version 5. While both versions can be run simultaneously, the solution is not optimal, and a bit of a hack. A little over a year ago, Matt Mullenweg of WordPress stated his reason for not abandoning version 4. I personally disagree with his apparent “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” attitude: “WordPress works just as well with PHP 5 as 4, and there are no features on the roadmap (including ones on your list) that would require PHP 5. The only reason for us to break PHP 4 compatibility would be political, and our users without the ability to upgrade their server would be the ones who lose. WordPress doesn’t make PHP 4 interesting or not, it’s agnostic.” [link] [...]

]]> By: Matt Mullenweg on PHP 5, WordPress Versions at Greek Blogger Camp · Pressed Words http://ma.tt/2007/07/on-php/#comment-445337 Matt Mullenweg on PHP 5, WordPress Versions at Greek Blogger Camp · Pressed Words Thu, 05 Jun 2008 13:17:31 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2007/07/13/on-php/#comment-445337 [...] applications to force users to upgrade to PHP 5. In what Mullenweg described in the Greek talk as his most controversial blog post of the past year, he basically said that WordPress would not require PHP 5 as a minimum version for the foreseeable [...] [...] applications to force users to upgrade to PHP 5. In what Mullenweg described in the Greek talk as his most controversial blog post of the past year, he basically said that WordPress would not require PHP 5 as a minimum version for the foreseeable [...]

]]> By: Wie gut ist WordPress 2.5 wirklich? bei im web gefunden http://ma.tt/2007/07/on-php/#comment-442468 Wie gut ist WordPress 2.5 wirklich? bei im web gefunden Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:27:50 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2007/07/13/on-php/#comment-442468 [...] vielleicht sollte er sich die Frage, die er damals an die PHP-Entwickler gerichtet hat, auch mal selber stellen. Eben nur in Bezug auf WordPress 2.5 und die Vorgängerversionen: [...] [...] vielleicht sollte er sich die Frage, die er damals an die PHP-Entwickler gerichtet hat, auch mal selber stellen. Eben nur in Bezug auf WordPress 2.5 und die Vorgängerversionen: [...]

]]> By: Why we won’t switch to SimplePie – Lilina News Aggregator http://ma.tt/2007/07/on-php/#comment-435935 Why we won’t switch to SimplePie – Lilina News Aggregator Sat, 05 Jan 2008 10:19:57 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2007/07/13/on-php/#comment-435935 [...] they are moving to PHP5 only. This is a big setback in my opinion. My thoughts pretty much mirror those of Matt’s. However, we also need to consider users who can’t (or won’t) upgrade to PHP5, for [...] [...] they are moving to PHP5 only. This is a big setback in my opinion. My thoughts pretty much mirror those of Matt’s. However, we also need to consider users who can’t (or won’t) upgrade to PHP5, for [...]

]]> By: Why Foliopress WSYIWYG will be PHP5 Only http://ma.tt/2007/07/on-php/#comment-435813 Why Foliopress WSYIWYG will be PHP5 Only Thu, 03 Jan 2008 11:41:15 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2007/07/13/on-php/#comment-435813 [...] Matt Mullenweg speaks out against PHP 5 [...] [...] Matt Mullenweg speaks out against PHP 5 [...]

]]> By: ndanger.organism :: blog :: LOTD: 2007-07-17 http://ma.tt/2007/07/on-php/#comment-433947 ndanger.organism :: blog :: LOTD: 2007-07-17 Sun, 02 Dec 2007 21:44:56 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2007/07/13/on-php/#comment-433947 [...] PHP 5: ugly step-child. Is the next version of your language needed, or just language designer wanking? How do you evolve your language without pissing off old users… and when do you throw in the towel and branch? [...] [...] PHP 5: ugly step-child. Is the next version of your language needed, or just language designer wanking? How do you evolve your language without pissing off old users… and when do you throw in the towel and branch? [...]

]]> By: Rob http://ma.tt/2007/07/on-php/#comment-428404 Rob Thu, 11 Oct 2007 11:02:25 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2007/07/13/on-php/#comment-428404 Personally for me there is no way PHP4 is better than PHP5, I develop for one of the UK's larger search engine marketing companies, The Technology Works, and for us personally we couldnt wait to get on PHP5 primarily for the OO features. I think the problem is that PHP has hobby-ist roots and most of the users are still scripters who wouldnt know how to make use of the features. It will change though, lots of companies have roots in PHP and are reaching a size were they need to adopt OO. Plus you have alot of great libraries and frameworks comming out now that need PHP5 - Symfony and the Zend Framework to name a couple. Roll on PHP6 I say, and give us namespaces! Rob. Personally for me there is no way PHP4 is better than PHP5, I develop for one of the UK’s larger search engine marketing companies, The Technology Works, and for us personally we couldnt wait to get on PHP5 primarily for the OO features. I think the problem is that PHP has hobby-ist roots and most of the users are still scripters who wouldnt know how to make use of the features. It will change though, lots of companies have roots in PHP and are reaching a size were they need to adopt OO. Plus you have alot of great libraries and frameworks comming out now that need PHP5 – Symfony and the Zend Framework to name a couple.

Roll on PHP6 I say, and give us namespaces!

Rob.

]]> By: somebody http://ma.tt/2007/07/on-php/#comment-425670 somebody Thu, 30 Aug 2007 06:10:00 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2007/07/13/on-php/#comment-425670 I just think that WP sucks, and also PHP4. kthx I just think that WP sucks, and also PHP4. kthx

]]> By: Hannes Magnusson http://ma.tt/2007/07/on-php/#comment-424195 Hannes Magnusson Mon, 13 Aug 2007 14:37:14 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2007/07/13/on-php/#comment-424195 "(In 2007, their site still doesn't have obvious permalinks. They do have a RSS 1.0 feed though, remember those?)" php.net does have "hidden" permlinks and Atom 1.0 feed. The reason why it isn't "official" yet is: a) Feed readers are stupid and don't understand xml:base or fragments. b) I am misreading the xml:base spec Google Reader for instance encodes the "#" in our links and Bloglines completely discards xml:base. I have been meaning to look better into this but haven't had the time yet, sorry :( The permlink for the PHP4 end of life entry is: http://www.php.net/archive/2007.php#2007-07-13-1 The Atom 1.0 feed is located at http://www.php.net/feed.atom -Hannes “(In 2007, their site still doesn’t have obvious permalinks. They do have a RSS 1.0 feed though, remember those?)”

php.net does have “hidden” permlinks and Atom 1.0 feed.
The reason why it isn’t “official” yet is:
a) Feed readers are stupid and don’t understand xml:base or fragments.
b) I am misreading the xml:base spec

Google Reader for instance encodes the “#” in our links and Bloglines completely discards xml:base.

I have been meaning to look better into this but haven’t had the time yet, sorry :(

The permlink for the PHP4 end of life entry is: http://www.php.net/archive/2007.php#2007-07-13-1
The Atom 1.0 feed is located at http://www.php.net/feed.atom

-Hannes

]]> By: Gabe http://ma.tt/2007/07/on-php/#comment-424179 Gabe Mon, 13 Aug 2007 05:22:04 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2007/07/13/on-php/#comment-424179 The question of why PHP 4 was so successful and what PHP 5 can do to capitalize on those stengths is a straw man. PHP 4 rose to prominence as everyone migrated from Perl CGIs. Now you have an entrenched code base. PHP 5 is clearly superior to 4... it's just not superior enough to warrant the upgrade. And with PHP 4 already having achieved critical mass, there's simply no place for PHP 5 to steal the users from. The other issue is that PHP was originally just hacked together to make dynamic web programming easy, but there was never much vision behind it. So of course the people attracted to that kind of language are going to be satisfied with "good enough", while anyone seriously interested in PHP 5 (or 6) should probably be looking at better languages like Python, Smalltalk, Ruby, or even Java. The question of why PHP 4 was so successful and what PHP 5 can do to capitalize on those stengths is a straw man. PHP 4 rose to prominence as everyone migrated from Perl CGIs. Now you have an entrenched code base.

PHP 5 is clearly superior to 4… it’s just not superior enough to warrant the upgrade. And with PHP 4 already having achieved critical mass, there’s simply no place for PHP 5 to steal the users from.

The other issue is that PHP was originally just hacked together to make dynamic web programming easy, but there was never much vision behind it. So of course the people attracted to that kind of language are going to be satisfied with “good enough”, while anyone seriously interested in PHP 5 (or 6) should probably be looking at better languages like Python, Smalltalk, Ruby, or even Java.

]]> By: dgx http://ma.tt/2007/07/on-php/#comment-423885 dgx Fri, 03 Aug 2007 16:14:01 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2007/07/13/on-php/#comment-423885 I wrote library Texy2 in pure PHP5 OOP code, but there was still a lot of (or majority?) users having only PHP4. So I wrote PHP 5 -> 4 converter and generated version running in PHP4 (converter is available for free here http://www.dgx.cz/trine/item/php-5-4-converter). I wrote library Texy2 in pure PHP5 OOP code, but there was still a lot of (or majority?) users having only PHP4. So I wrote PHP 5 -> 4 converter and generated version running in PHP4 (converter is available for free here http://www.dgx.cz/trine/item/php-5-4-converter).

]]> By: PHP4 is dead. Long live PHP4! at From Accessibility to Zope http://ma.tt/2007/07/on-php/#comment-423875 PHP4 is dead. Long live PHP4! at From Accessibility to Zope Fri, 03 Aug 2007 10:50:30 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2007/07/13/on-php/#comment-423875 [...] until the end of the year. The idea is to push developers towards PHP5. Matt Mullenweg notes that PHP4 is adequate for a lot of developers, but also claims that PHP5 adoption is poor because PHP5 hasn’t been marketed properly to [...] [...] until the end of the year. The idea is to push developers towards PHP5. Matt Mullenweg notes that PHP4 is adequate for a lot of developers, but also claims that PHP5 adoption is poor because PHP5 hasn’t been marketed properly to [...]

]]> By: Does PHP 5 Hurt PHP? (by Sandro Groganz) http://ma.tt/2007/07/on-php/#comment-423699 Does PHP 5 Hurt PHP? (by Sandro Groganz) Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:44:23 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2007/07/13/on-php/#comment-423699 [...] you follow the PHP blogs, then you are likely to have read Matt “Wordpress” Mullenweg’s anti-PHP 5 rant: PHP 5 has been, from an adoption point of view, a complete flop. Most estimates place it in the [...] [...] you follow the PHP blogs, then you are likely to have read Matt “WordPress” Mullenweg’s anti-PHP 5 rant: PHP 5 has been, from an adoption point of view, a complete flop. Most estimates place it in the [...]

]]> By: Stephen http://ma.tt/2007/07/on-php/#comment-423655 Stephen Sat, 28 Jul 2007 23:03:48 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2007/07/13/on-php/#comment-423655 Having just finished a php5 migration of our code I think 5 is huge improvement over 4 if you are writing OO code. The stuff written in 5 really is great, more maintainable, easier to understand and easier to modify. Of course you can write bad OO code, but I think good oo practice informed by patterns really is a great reason to use php 5. Of course, I haven't done any development in php 4 for a couple years now. Definitely looking forward to 6. Having just finished a php5 migration of our code I think 5 is huge improvement over 4 if you are writing OO code. The stuff written in 5 really is great, more maintainable, easier to understand and easier to modify. Of course you can write bad OO code, but I think good oo practice informed by patterns really is a great reason to use php 5. Of course, I haven’t done any development in php 4 for a couple years now. Definitely looking forward to 6.

]]> By: Mercy Killing PHP4 - Scatterism http://ma.tt/2007/07/on-php/#comment-423572 Mercy Killing PHP4 - Scatterism Fri, 27 Jul 2007 17:14:31 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2007/07/13/on-php/#comment-423572 [...] Matt runs one of the largest PHP4 projects, and he’s pissed. [...] [...] Matt runs one of the largest PHP4 projects, and he’s pissed. [...]

]]> By: AsisRed Blog » PHP: Pasado, presente y futuro http://ma.tt/2007/07/on-php/#comment-423489 AsisRed Blog » PHP: Pasado, presente y futuro Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:26:57 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2007/07/13/on-php/#comment-423489 [...] no todos están de acuerdo, Matt Mullenweg fundador de WordPress publicó en su blog una dura crítica a esta iniciativa: Ahora, el equipo del núcleo de PHP parece haber decidido que para impulsar a su [...] [...] no todos están de acuerdo, Matt Mullenweg fundador de WordPress publicó en su blog una dura crítica a esta iniciativa: Ahora, el equipo del núcleo de PHP parece haber decidido que para impulsar a su [...]

]]> By: Alex Barth http://ma.tt/2007/07/on-php/#comment-423476 Alex Barth Wed, 25 Jul 2007 13:19:36 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2007/07/13/on-php/#comment-423476 "design, copywriting, information, performance" that's what PHP4 vs PHP5 i about ;) “design, copywriting, information, performance” that’s what PHP4 vs PHP5 i about ;)

]]> By: Matt http://ma.tt/2007/07/on-php/#comment-423373 Matt Mon, 23 Jul 2007 21:37:10 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2007/07/13/on-php/#comment-423373 cyberRodent, I agree and want to add that Python adoption for web development would probably be much higher if hosting providers offered it by default. If there were more open source web apps built with python and hosting providers offered it there would be some serious competition to PHP. cyberRodent, I agree and want to add that Python adoption for web development would probably be much higher if hosting providers offered it by default. If there were more open source web apps built with python and hosting providers offered it there would be some serious competition to PHP.

]]> By: cyberRodent http://ma.tt/2007/07/on-php/#comment-423353 cyberRodent Mon, 23 Jul 2007 14:41:52 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2007/07/13/on-php/#comment-423353 someone said this: "When I need a “real” language, I generally turn to Python" and I agree. If php5 hadn't come about I'd be doing all my webapps in python. why? because I like OO programming (not just namespace management with classes) and because XML is fact of life - and Java is excessive for modest sized sites. Just because *your* app doesn't need php5 is no reason to pretend no one else needs it or that those advocating it are evil. Change is inevitable... that is, unless you run Debian stable. Php5 makes php suck less. someone said this: “When I need a “real” language, I generally turn to Python” and I agree. If php5 hadn’t come about I’d be doing all my webapps in python. why? because I like OO programming (not just namespace management with classes) and because XML is fact of life – and Java is excessive for modest sized sites.

Just because *your* app doesn’t need php5 is no reason to pretend no one else needs it or that those advocating it are evil. Change is inevitable… that is, unless you run Debian stable.

Php5 makes php suck less.

]]> By: James http://ma.tt/2007/07/on-php/#comment-423349 James Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:48:24 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2007/07/13/on-php/#comment-423349 Hi It's a complex issue being discussed and there is no one reason for the predicament. I can offer two that come to mind: Shared hosting/hosts - PHP4 is so prevalent and entrenched in this environment that it's mighty hard to get PHP 5 recognised as a stable alternative. Example: I fought hard to get PHP5 used in a 2005 job only to be told that it was "beta" and "unstable". The server managers then went and installed 4.2 (3 years old at the time) and only with waving security notices and smelling salts under their noses did they "upgrade" to 4.3 Stupidy, ignorance or just plain "it's PHP what do you care?" ? Illusion of support: another major reason for the predicament is that PHP4 has, from the outside world, been undergoing regular releases and upgrades alongside PHP5. This allows people to think "Why upgrade PHP *and* code when I can just upgrade PHP and not touch any code". It's this question which results in a lot of the crap code littering the web, as someone mentioned previously. PHP5 makes it harder to produce dud code. The errors people may see in moving from PHP4 to 5 are due to the parser picking up the duds. Personally, I'd heartily recommend you all upgrade to 5. Would you rather be stuck with a German toilet (http://asecular.com/~scott/misc/toilet.htm) or one where you don't have to flush three times to do the same task? Hi

It’s a complex issue being discussed and there is no one reason for the predicament. I can offer two that come to mind:

Shared hosting/hosts – PHP4 is so prevalent and entrenched in this environment that it’s mighty hard to get PHP 5 recognised as a stable alternative. Example: I fought hard to get PHP5 used in a 2005 job only to be told that it was “beta” and “unstable”. The server managers then went and installed 4.2 (3 years old at the time) and only with waving security notices and smelling salts under their noses did they “upgrade” to 4.3
Stupidy, ignorance or just plain “it’s PHP what do you care?” ?

Illusion of support: another major reason for the predicament is that PHP4 has, from the outside world, been undergoing regular releases and upgrades alongside PHP5. This allows people to think “Why upgrade PHP *and* code when I can just upgrade PHP and not touch any code”.
It’s this question which results in a lot of the crap code littering the web, as someone mentioned previously.

PHP5 makes it harder to produce dud code. The errors people may see in moving from PHP4 to 5 are due to the parser picking up the duds.

Personally, I’d heartily recommend you all upgrade to 5. Would you rather be stuck with a German toilet (http://asecular.com/~scott/misc/toilet.htm) or one where you don’t have to flush three times to do the same task?

]]> By: robinadr | WordPress & PHP 5 http://ma.tt/2007/07/on-php/#comment-423336 robinadr | WordPress & PHP 5 Mon, 23 Jul 2007 09:18:40 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2007/07/13/on-php/#comment-423336 [...] PHP 5 debate has sparked up (again?), mostly brought on by the discussion on the mailing list and Matt’s post on PHP 5. I think this post on funkatron.com explains it pretty well — what we do now with a mess of [...] [...] PHP 5 debate has sparked up (again?), mostly brought on by the discussion on the mailing list and Matt’s post on PHP 5. I think this post on funkatron.com explains it pretty well — what we do now with a mess of [...]

]]> By: The Programming and Management Blog » Boycott WordPress? http://ma.tt/2007/07/on-php/#comment-423326 The Programming and Management Blog » Boycott WordPress? Sun, 22 Jul 2007 20:50:13 +0000 http://photomatt.net/2007/07/13/on-php/#comment-423326 [...] just read an unbelievable post on Matt Mullenweg’s blog On PHP for those who don’t know Matt is behind the very product this blog is built upon. And to be [...] [...] just read an unbelievable post on Matt Mullenweg’s blog On PHP for those who don’t know Matt is behind the very product this blog is built upon. And to be [...]

]]>