Categories Asides Graffitti disses WordPress Post author By Matt Post date January 3, 2008 75 Comments on Graffitti disses WordPress Graffitti disses WordPress, their landing page boasts a 2-minute install. Seems pretty aggressive for a product that’s only available for pre-purchase (at $199). Share this:Click to email this to a friend (Opens in new window)Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window)Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window) Related ← Misery, Happiness → Particletree 75 replies on “Graffitti disses WordPress” Very classless I think. I’ll stick with WordPress on all of my sites, thanks. The landing page (landing page?) comes right and admits, it’s a template-‘language’ system. This is Matt Mullenweg’s grandsfather’s CMS-technology! Template-ware? Oh, wow! It’s flattery! There are folks around who cling to Microsoft’s skirt. They’re not reproducing very fast, though… Looks pretty easy to use, I like the “version control” option. Not a WP killer but still.. (http://graffiticms.com/get-it-now/) claims its $99, not $199. WTH? 2-minute install? $199 preorder. Oh hell no. Luckily, no one uses ASP/IIS any more…. Interesting story for campaign season. Where do we turn to get away from “negative attack ads”? By the way, I found their site through Google while searching for WorPress developers. Their anti-WP sales pitch turned me off right away. I’m all for competition (it’s what keeps the market great) but when you resort to mudslinging and think that a $199 price tag is going to seem refreshing to a crowd that doesn’t really need an alternative to WordPress (if you’re searching for WordPress related materials, why would you want to find something that isn’t WordPress?) then you’re going about it all wrong. Oh and for the record, technically, WordPress is a 1-click install (if you’re hosted with Dreamhost). All you do is fill out some information, click install, go about your business, a minute or two later, click on another link and – what’s that? WordPress is installed, ready for you to name your blog and get started. Also, it uses something called Chalk, which almost looks like a bastardized version of PHP. I’m already sick of Graffiti and I hope they fail big time. I don’t know how you could possibly compete with these guys. I mean, one one hand you have WordPress, and on the other hand (see the bottom of their page), you have “an 80+ person team that does nothing but eat, live, and breath [sic] communities”. I think they should add one person to that team to help with the grammar/spell checking. […] already said my piece about this on Matt’s Blog, and I don’t feel that I have to repeat myself. But in case you don’t want to have to […] Needless to say… boooooh! … what has price got to do with aggressive? Argh. I hate it when people hate proprietary software merely because they’re some kind of FOSS zealot. I mean, sure they shouldn’t be so aggressive but what has the damn price go to do with it? That’s just absurd. They were looking for press, and you just gave it to them. Well, having tried Graffiti, I’d say that the two minutes allows plenty time for making a nice cup of tea along the way. Also, the $199 fee would only apply to a commercial installation, not the free version for personal use. You know, it’s not like WordPress is particularly difficult to install either…and a lot of hosts these days even offer a one-click install for it. Made me smile… I do behave like a naive kid once in a while too, but I never went as far as praising IIS/.NET over Apache/PHP. Open source crowds never forget anything. 🙂 Well, thanks to them, I was able to come up with a catchy headline for my post which shares my thoughts on this, http://www.jeffro2pt0.com/telligent-lacks-intelligents/ […] claims it is an alternative to WordPress. Charles Stricklin mentioned it his blog. So did Matt. The question is, Is GraffitiCMS really better than WordPress? Let’s take a closer […] I think the fact that you HAVE to have an IIS/.net server is going to sway a lot of people away from it… Why does it state “$199” when the site says “$99”? It’s very possible that they reduced the price soon after you posted I gues… Also, it claims to be “free for personal use” – even though I’m certain it’s not as good as wordpress, maybe someone would like to give it a try? Dom Hmmm, not impressed. You can’t compare a product you pay for to a product that’s free. Especially at that price. Did anyone notice the post text on the main blog page is all cut off on the right hand side? I assume they’re using their own product here. Not a very eyebrow waggling affect if you ask me. Why did they pick on WordPress? It’s a totally different animal. Hell of a selling point there. IIS/.NET over Apache/PHP? Wait, I have this sudden urge to trade my tried and true 96 Jeep Cherokee for a 96 Chevy Blazer instead. I’ll even give ’em an extra $199.00 to boot while I’m at it. Price is outrageous. Even half the price is outrageous and they’re offering this to those folks thinking about a “do-it-yourself” WordPress install? No comment lest it be another sarcastic one. Okay, so they’re coming out with their own CMS system. Good for them, more competition in the “paid for” arena…but absolutely no reason to pick on WordPress. Bad karma all around. Bluehost also has automatic WordPress install by the way and a better price. 😀 It’s .NET and uses Microsoft Access as its database? …and has a bunch of unreadable .dll files? Who’s headed to the deadpool? Hmm, a better piece of software for free, with a whole community working on it. I’ll take my WordPress anyday! lol… crazy […] A couple of posts are floating in the B’sphere concerning the marketing campaign of the GraffitiCMS blogging platform. It appears as though it has targeted the users of WordPress for a share of the Web 2.0 pie. Reaction by the WordPress faithful can be seen in posts by Charles Stricklin and Photo Matt. […] Just to be clear, we see Graffiti as being a great solution for all the people we’ve heard from that want a CMS that has a lot of the common features found in blogs. The most common request we heard was, “Somthing as simple as WordPress with more CMS features.” That is what Graffiti is. Several clarifications: 1. There is both a free: $0 and commercial version: $99; the $199 was a typo. 2. Graffiti Beta 1 runs on Windows. The 1.0 release will also run on Linux, Solaris, and Max OS X using Mono. 3. Graffiti Beta 1 supports VistaDB, and SQL Server. The 1.0 release will also support MySQL. We have a lot of respect for WordPress, but also think some competition would be fun =) I will use Graffitti when it has THOUSANDS of free plugins and themes. Do they have tons of plugins and themes? WP still rules… It’s like the pre-election campaign ads bashing the competition! Unfortunately, what the Graffitti guys don’t realize is that the elections are long over and WordPress won by a margin of a few million! I think it’s interesting that no one is answering this question here. If I host it myself, is it considered personal use still if I put ads on it? http://support.graffiticms.com/t/69.aspx […] not a religion people its just technologies. Shame on Matt for linking to a complete non-issue. WordPress is good at what it does but it can’t be everthing, there will always be people […] $99 or $199 is irrelevant. WordPress saw a huge spurt in growth when Movable Type decided to go with a pricing structure instead of being a free software. What makes these guys think that someone will spend ANY amount when they can get a great software package with great support and great options for free? By the way, MT is now available again as free software but many of us who switched to WordPress found that it is a superior platform. Chalk? Who needs it? You don’t need to know how to program PHP to use WordPress. Yes, it helps but it’s not necessary. I have set up numerous WordPress blogs for friends and for groups who have used it for years; some of those folks can barely turn on their computers. I could go on and on about their propaganda, but I’ll leave with this: if WordPress isn’t a capable CMS then why do so many businesses use it? “Finally, a WordPress Alternative” Like there is an alternative 😛 (love you Matt :P) and all the others responsible. P.S. Nice interview with Shoemoney, you seemed pretty short with him… is there some discourse? Of course you have a lot respect for WordPress, thatÂ´s where you copy the idea of your “CMS”, it sucks when somebody does something for free and then another one came, does the “same” but it charges you. You are using WordPress keyword because you need it for SEO and publicity, thatÂ´s lame and lack of creativity. So, lame software and lame publicity. DonÂ´t use WordPress and come up with your own idea for a CMS, nobody will take you guys serious. Correction, I wanted to say on my last paragraph: “DonÂ´t use WordPress word and and come up with your own idea for a CMS…” did i miss something? pay 199..oh no 99…for what now? I’m amazed that you’re all taking the bait! Graffiti’s traffic must be spiking now. I find it concerning that a lot of “open-source” developer/users are still “closed-minded” towards .NET/IIS. Just take a look at http://www.codeplex.com As for “Graffiti vs WordPress” – not a threat! You guys have nothing to worry about. They should be more concerned with Umbraco. http://umbraco.org/ I liked the part where it told me, that I do not need to create a database with Graffiti, as I do with WordPress (so it says). Say what? I’ve installed WordPress tons of times, where WordPress did all the database creating for me. Also, and here’s the good part, if you want to use MySQL with Graffiti, you’ll just have to go through these simple steps 😉 1. Create a new database (note: You can use an existing database) 2. Execute the Graffiti_SQL_Schema.sql file found in the data folder. 3. Execute the Graffiti_SQL_Data.sql file found in the data folder. 4. Add the connection string of your database to the __config/connestionstring.config file. It should have the name “Graffiti”: 5. Change the AppSetting key “DataBuddy::Provider” value to “DataBuddy.SQLDataProvider, DataBuddy” in the __config/settings.config file. I’ll stick to WordPress with a bunch of plugins and themes on the side, thank you very much. // Lars “Finally, a WordPress Alternative” I read that and thought “Has there really been a cry for a WordPress Alternative?” I mean, if you really want a WordPress alternative, there already are. At least, theoretically. So far, I haven’t seen anything I’d trade WordPress for, but it could exist, somewhere. “So we decided to introduce a neutral programming concept we call Chalk. Chalk is a simple templating language that gives both designers and developers the ability to customize how content is shown without requiring them to read a 500 lb. book on programming.” So, learning a proprietary “templating language” is somehow better than learning PHP and WordPress template tags? Well, either way, I want to know where the 500 lb. WordPress programming book is, please. If WordPress for Dummies was supposed to be 500 lbs., I think I’m missing pages. “Of course Graffiti is built on .NET and truth be told any good developer can make either PHP or ASP.NET code perform. However, we think there are more long-term advantages in Microsoft’s platform and better tools. So for developers familiar with ASP.NET its full power and capability are available to you.” All of which I read as “We learned ASP and .NET and we’re going to make that education, and you, pay if it kills us!” No, thank you. I’d rather rely on Open Source software than closed software from a draconian company with predatory licensing policies and a web server with a terrible reputation for security. Pretty silly. I’m going to download the free version and test it on our intranet this weekend to see “how great” it really is. Not that I’d care, since WordPress is the only system we use. We run about 15 website and use WordPress as a CMS. Yes, I said it .. WordPress can be used as a CMS. GOOD GRACIOUS SAY IT ISN’T SO!!! Friendly competition is all good. I’m all for it. Drives the market … but really, their advertisement states their $99 system is better than a FREE system. It really feels … silly. It’s like paying for a meal you got for free. ummm. i just installed it to a subdirectory on my site and I’ve been going for well over 10 minutes and it took me about 15 minutes to get it working total. It’s clunky and horrible and the themes are bad copies of bad wordpress themes. no way in hell i’d switch. Whoever wrote the copy for Graffiti should be fired. Not only are they targeting the wrong users (those looking for Self-Hosted WP info), but their rhetoric (what with the .Net vs PHP, and our unproven platform is better than the mature WP – even before launch) is not only fool hearty, but is arrogant. Your adword dollars are really being spent well . Telligent – you have no track record to back up your claims. In fact, all you have is an attitude and beta software. Yet, Automattic has WP, WP.com, MU, bbPress, AKISMET, and more to boast about (and doesn’t – at least not by putting other platforms down). Remember, Graffitti, you’re the only one competing. WP has already “won” with millions of users. But good luck with that, m’kay? […] community hating on Microsoft Matt Mullenweg, the creator of WordPress, linked to a blog post someone wrote up about a Google ad we ran for […] Fffft… bah.. I have three WordPress installs on my host.. the last one I did in less than 10 minutes… had it customized and everything… Honestly, if installation is your issue, toss $25.00 to any of the tons of people who will do it for you. $199 for CMS? disgusting. It better come with some pretty whizbangy features for that. First of all, let me say that WordPress is not that great. At all. I’ve used it, and I was not very impressed, so I wrote my own CMS from scratch. I think right now the best, simplest, free blog engine is BlogEngine.NET. Second of all, in response to Danny Mekics comment: You are so ignorant it’s not even funny. Finally, yes it costs money for a commercial license. I don’t understand why so many of you find this hard to believe. Companies are in business to make money, and it only makes sense for them to spend money on products that are beneficial to their productivity. If you ranting commenters understood this, you would shut your mouths about the price tag. Google offers any number of free tools that are amazingly helpful, and yet they still rake in billions of dollars in profits. Is this a magic trick? No, it’s good business, maybe you guys will figure it out some day. And by the way, you all should know that WordPress really is NOT free: http://photomatt.net/2006/04/12/a-little-funding/ hah. these guys are weak. word to wordpress. that should be a shirt. I’ve heard a lot of people say “I want a website, not a blog”. Hey, I’m embarrassed to admit that I used to be one of them. I’ve since come to the realization, however, that the only real difference between the two is the presentation of content. Not that it matters for the purposes of my point here, but I’ve also realized that a blog-looking site is just about the most effective method of presenting a personal website to readers. Material is easily searched, reverse chronological, and presented nicely to search engines. WordPress does all of this and much more better than any product the world has ever seen. The true beauty of WordPress, however, is its flexibility. I’ve seen it used to build nearly every kind of website imaginable, including a project I’ve been involved with called Scriblio, where we have used it to provide an interface to the entire Library of Congress catalog. While it is true that WP is most often used for sites we recognize as blogs, it certainly does not have to be because WordPress does not style your site, your theme does. I’ve been working on a theme that has more the traditional look and feel of Joomla than any blog, but I still feel WP is a much better CMS, so I’m using it. The point is that the only limit to what WordPress can do is your imagination, artistic talent and ability to write themes. It’s a sad fact I have seen all too often working in IT that some believe software you pay for must be better than open source. Usually these folks are managers and obviously they are mistaken. For them the MS stack and graffiti might be just fine, but those of us who appreciate excellent software and the wonderful people who create it will continue to be treated to amazingly superior products like WordPress and the LAMP stack. […] better by making the other guy look worse” advertising drive that they put into effect. Matt posted that Graffiti was “dissing” WordPress. Immediately, comments began pouring in stating that Graffiti was actually an uber-evil extension […] Why are you giving them free advertising? […] saw Matt’s post, Graffitti [sic] disses WordPress, and I thought it may have some merit. So I read it thinking it was going to be a WordPress […] I find it funny it needs operating systems to run properly. “2. Graffiti Beta 1 runs on Windows. The 1.0 release will also run on Linux, Solaris, and Max OS X using Mono. 3. Graffiti Beta 1 supports VistaDB, and SQL Server. The 1.0 release will also support MySQL.” I’ll keep WP…good luck with your POS…err, I mean CMS […] Matt but Graffitti CMS does install faster than WordPress! Just over 1 minute for me! No DB configs or users to setup all you need is FTP. Diss or no Diss […] […] never even heard of “Graffitti”. Yet here I am, reading about it and them dissing WP, everybody’s favorite blog […] @Erik: Um, WP needs an operating system too… I think someone needs to just admit that WordPress is the best feee blogging platform out there. It was conceived as a blogging platform. It grew as a blogging platform. It uses the term “blog” to desctibe it’s use. It’s interface is centered around blogging. Blogging is centered around the repetitive presentation of articles, which can be search by date, tags and categories. Look at TechCrunch. Look at GigaOM. Same pattern. It’s a blogging platform. CMS is far more complicated that WordPress. Graffiti calls itself a CMS and it’s not one either. MT is more closer to a CMS than either. Didn’t the Iowa caucus prove to us that mud-slinging gets you nowhere? After having had my head buried in the drupal sand, I can no longer call WordPress, and certainly not this GraffitiCMS, CMS systems — neither have one of their core functionalities: user role management. However, even given that I don’t see wordpress as a cms, I still use it myself and love the software. Jeff, you should dig deeper into WP’s roles system, it’s every bit as flexible as Drupal. @Erik – Operating Systems – yeah, what a drag! Next thing, they’ll be claiming you need some hardware on which to run the software too, eh?! Actually I’ve been trying out the beta and I use a Mac. Weird… WordPress is awesome!.. And I use it. – However I don’t pledge my allegiance to it/them. Interesting, if not odd, little argument though… I guess everyone needs a turn on the soapbox. 🙂 Graffiti or WP… hmm, that’s a no-brainer. WP all the way. I looked at the source code for the Graffiti site, and it is horrible. Looks like legacy code and the structure is deplorable. If anything, I’ll use Drupal as an alternative when doing sites, not this hunk of junk that looks like a certain company in Washington state threw it up and pushed it out the door onto the laps of the public. There’s plenty of “competition” out there, looks like this Graffiti is just looking for their 15 minutes… now that they have had it… I’m going back to my WordPress sites. Matt, I wrote an article on my site about their ad campaign, “Tired of WordPress.” The article is here: http://www.philoking.com/2007/12/27/what-does-wordpress-have-in-common-with-microsoft-windows-marketshare/ The Product Manager for Teligent’ Responded in comments and also write a post about my article: http://simpable.com/business/graffiti-v-wordpress/ I thought it was interesting that they are running ads targeting WordPress users, but then claim it’s not primarily blog software, and also say that they don’t mean CMS for Content Management System. Who wants a blog software that isn’t written primarily for blogging? I also thought it was interesting how much he discounted Linux loyalty in the blogosphere and the likelyhood of people switching to .net from php very unlikely. Jason “Make sure your host meets the requirements (IIS and .NET).” Well, that rules out 95% of the Internet. Ah, I suppose I should then. I haven’t gone deep into the user system for a few versions, so it may have become a might bit more amazing. …say what? $199 preorder for that? c’mon,that over WP?! Hell nah. Wow, no further comments because if I do say something, it’ll start some bullshxt. ROFL, I think it will flop badly because of the absurd sale price and the fact it is trying to compare itself to a great open source tool. The ASP.NET + IIS requirements are a joke. About having to do things with MySQL. At 1&1, all I do is create the db, tell WP the user, pwd and the local host and dbname and WP does the rest. (I do not use the simple install because I am locked into their themes and add-ons). When I was looking for a blog for http://dzoovoleric.wordpress.com I thought about Windows Live! Spaces, but it is annoying to log in and out of passports and I did not know you could not link them. I tried Blogger once, and it was so-so. I did setup my own WP at http://blog.beacontechnologysolutions.com for when I start with my biz. It does need more customization like the stats. I do want to move the dzoovoleric off of WordPress, but I fear I would lose publicity being on the WordPress domain. I many use Microsoft products, but I am now not afraid to try other products and see what works best. http://www.msmvps.com/shelluser I never been that impressed with (Runs CS). (The CS I am not impressed with). I hope WP stays on top and continues to be cutting edge. If someone has suggestions and such, please e-mail me via my profile on here if there is one or the dzoovoleric or shelluser link above. Yeah, I noticed their typos and misspellings, too…maybe they should have somebody on their team “eat, sleep and breath” proofreading as well as “communities” (what do they mean by that, anyway?). I also think that I wouldn’t pay for blogging software (whether $99 or $199, even if it’s as cool as they say), especially when I can get WordPress or a Blogspot page for free. HOWEVER, there is something to their pitch. For one thing, if they’re targeting WordPress, that’s probably because WordPress is the leader in the area they’re trying to break into (I didn’t think their pitch was all that negative, anyway; they didn’t say WordPress sucked, just that they were better and easier to use). For another thing, getting WordPress to work really does take more work with coding and such than the average moron is comfortable with. I can deal with a little (and I mean a little) bit of HTML, but PHP or anything like that freaks me out. I’m not a designer or a coder or a programmer by any means–just a writer-type who wants to publish his own opinions on the Web. I like WP, but there’s been kind of a steep learning curve with it (partly because I decided to put it on my own server space, which makes things more complex). Even though I do like WordPress, in some ways I miss the idiot-proof, quick, no-fuss operation of my old Blogger site. I have to admit, I’m tempted by Graffiti. They might just have something. The $199, or $99, or any amount above zero, has said it all for me. I may be wrong, but I have a feeling WordPress is not likely to go away any time soon. I’m safe with WordPress. And the negative advertising (“Go with us cos we aren’t like them”?!) is, like someone already said, classless. And more ignorance from Mr. Kevin Burton… lol yeah sure, whatever you say buddy! Telligent writes good software; I’m very impressed with their latest release of Community Server. I wouldn’t doubt Graffiti follows in the same footsteps of high craftsmanship. It’s always fun reading comments from emotionally charged fanboys protecting their baby. […] recently got criticized for being a “blogware, not a content management system […] Looks like a great PR / linkbait move by them. If they’re smart they’ll change their sales pitch to be less off putting after their anti wordpress message has gotten them enough link / buzz and they want to start selling their product instead. I’m not defending them, I love wordpress and open source, and I thank you for all the hard work you’ve put into an excellent system; instead I’m just pointing out that it could be more an attention grabbing move than an attempted attack on wordpress. […] interesting entry on Matt Mullenweg’s (original WordPress founder) blog. His entry was called "Graffiti Disses WordPress," and it linked to an entry on Charles Stricklin’s blog, which contained detailed criticism of […] ASP.NET + IIS requirements are a joke only if you’re a clown who values “free tools” over the most powerful IDE on Earth (Visual Studio,) one of the fastest and most scalable web development platforms, and one of the most robust servers on Earth of the marginal amount of dollars that they cost. The reason why Microsoft doesn’t market to people like you is because you’re not worth anything. They play innocent in every fashion possible. Technically, they’ve not done or said anything wrong. But that doesn’t really count when you know what kind of effect your words have on people. I can tell someone “You’re gay” and be speaking the truth – but I also know very well that, even if it’s a simple factual statement, the reaction I get is likely to be unpleasant. Same goes for Graffiti’s advertisement. They are simply stating it’s an alternative CMS for WordPress, but they also know that WordPress users will take it as an insult. Which makes them as a matter of fact not as innocent as they claim to be. Also, if their true purpose is to provide an alternative CMS and are not out to diss WordPress, they shouldn’t buy the WordPress keyword. Instead, they should look into buying the “alternative CMS” keywords. Right? It doesn’t matter what Graffiti uses or how long it takes to install, what pricetag it has or how efficient it is. What’s outrageous is the manner in which it is advertised. anyone ever hear of http://webworkerdaily.com/2008/01/11/bitnami-offers-easy-open-source what is the real purpose behind bitnami? Graffiti is horrible. Use DotNetNuke it is much better, user friendly and free. Don’t waste your money with Graffiti. I was trying to get support for help with installing a them called Traiing. I wasted 10s of hours and my money but was not able to customize or install the theme. If you need lightweight blog use DotNetBlogEngine.net . It is free and much better. Learn from my mistake and save your money. Do not use Graffiti and waste your money or time. It is horrible. Support is non-existent. Comments are closed.